O'Ryan: Hey there, my name's O'Ryan and today I am joined by my co host Trina from MyLadyADHD

Trina: Hello.

O'Ryan: and a special guest, Coach Alex.

Hi there.

Coach Alex is the lead coach here at Shimmer.

O'Ryan: Alex, what does that mean? What does a lead coach do?

Coach Alex: Fair enough, that's a good question. You could also say coach operations manager. I'm all about the day to day experience of coaching. So I'm in charge of our hiring process to get our talented coaches on the team. The daily support for any times they need to brainstorm different ways that they can approach a certain situation or learn new tools.

I help with their development and upskilling as coaches. And then I'm also there for additional support for program development. So as you guys, or maybe you don't know yet, but Shimmer launched Shimmer for Teens last year, I was a part of that process for what that would look like, what the experience would be, so I'm, anytime a, it's about care or coaching, I'm usually there, a part of the project.

O'Ryan: One of the reasons

Trina: I

O'Ryan: about bringing

Trina: was

O'Ryan: some of the things that we see a lot in the community is that when we mentioned coaching, it's kind of the first time people are hearing about it.

And I know for myself, even prior to joining Shimmer, I didn't know what coaching was. And so bringing you on as literally the lead coach here at Shimmer, I feel like you have a level of expertise. That can maybe help us clarify some of these questions.

Trina: I'm one of the people that I feel like I'm relatively new to coaching as an option. I only discovered coaching maybe two years ago as a late diagnosed ADHD woman.

I just went online looking for resources and I was really hoping for something like holistic where I wasn't going to have to be fully relying on medication to help me manage my ADHD. And I ran across coaching and yeah, I've been working with a coach ever since.

So I'm a, I'm a proponent for coaching and I'm always trying to push O'Ryan to get signed up for coaching.

O'Ryan: the edge to finally, it's not a thing. So it's funny because I want to do it. It's something that I know is valuable. And ever since joining shimmer, I've been like, I need to do this. Like I desperately need it.

But I think one of the things that trips me up sometimes is It feels like another thing that I have to give my attention to. And so maybe it's, it's like a, I need more time. I need more bandwidth to be able to take this extra thing on.

Coach Alex: That's such a common thing to hear of, well it's another appointment, it's another demand. You're not wrong, like it is another appointment, but it's to assist you with all the other demands. So if you have this really full plate It's not oh, I'm, I'm actually just going to use food now.

I'm not, I'm just not adding mashed potatoes, but it'sokay, actually what food items can come off of the plate? Your coach is going to be there to look at the plate with you, so you're not carrying it around alone anymore. It's

O'Ryan: Mmm.

Coach Alex: a very odd metaphor, but more often adding this to your schedule will take away the rest from your schedule or make it more manageable, less burnout, more resilience. You add it, but to subtract other things.

Trina: I do feel like that happens in my coaching experience. I have my coach help me look at, physically look at my calendar with me and, help me, figure out next steps. If maybe I do need to cancel something next week, maybe I need to move things around, maybe, just to look at me at my schedule and, reaffirmed that yes, I'm doing too much Is also nice to have like just another set of eyes being like no, you're not lazy This is a lot for one person to do so that like it also helps you just eliminate some of the extras on your calendar.

I think for

O'Ryan: Mmm.

Trina: with me so

O'Ryan: say it's kind of like, instead of adding mashed potatoes to your already full plate, it's like picking up a fork so that you can start clearing your plate? Ha ha ha ha ha.

Coach Alex: I mean, the metaphor's not gonna translate perfectly, but you get the idea of, it's

O'Ryan: Yeah.

Coach Alex: more things for you to carry, it's someone else helping

O'Ryan: Mm hmm.

Coach Alex: it. And seeing,

O'Ryan: Yeah.

Coach Alex: have to be carrying this? It's a travel partner. We can move away from the food metaphor and it's like a heavy briefcase.

O'Ryan: Okay. Mmm.

Trina: to add like there's there's a lot of people in my life that know that I have ADHD but maybe they're not built to support me, on things that I need help with, looking at my calendar, they don't, maybe that's annoying to them that they have to help me with their, with my calendar, and this is just, an external person too, and it's not just helping with my calendar, that's just, an example I'm using, but, I think it's just, an outside person too that also understands ADHD and understands the struggle, more than maybe even people in your family might understand, so it's, Having that other person just, that empathize with you is really nice for me,

Coach Alex: Yes, the coach, generally has much more experience and is equipped to support with ADHD. They have tools and systems they can introduce you to that you might not be familiar with, but in addition to the tools, of course there's empathy, but it's also about empowerment. Of, it's not just needing someone to be there to do it with you. yes, accountability is a huge piece. It's one of the number one things we talk about in ADHD coaching. But it's also strengthening the belief in yourself that you know how to do it. So not just telling you

O'Ryan: Hmm.

Coach Alex: Sometimes it's, hey, here's, here's some different tools that I think might work. How does this work for you? it's not a guessing game by any means, but most people don't like to be told what to do. I think a good amount, O'Ryan's laughing, I think he could probably relate. If someone just tells you do it this way,

it doesn't go super well. So that's not what a coach is doing when they're partnering with you. Your family member might be like, why don't you just do it this way? Your coach is not going to have that approach with you, and you're going to feel good and confident about what you're coming up with yourself and collaborating on.

So I think that's also really special in the relationship.

O'Ryan: early on, before I really understood what coaching was and working here at Shimmer, that was, that was my number one concern is I don't want somebody telling me what to do. And I feel like if I sign up for this. I've committed to something, but then if I'm just going to have somebody being like, O'Ryan, you need to do X, Y, and Z, O'Ryan, why haven't you done this?

O'Ryan, you're supposed to be doing this, that it's just going to trigger that demand avoidance, and I'm just going to want nothing to do with it.

Coach Alex: Yeah, I mean, there's a time and a place for a reminder. Because sometimes it's, forgot. Yeah, we all forget things. Of course, every now and then you need a nudge of like,yes, that is what I'm working on. But that's not really what your, your coach is mainly doing. They're there to help you remind you of what you want to be working on, but not in a nagging, come on, way.

It's, what's going on here? What are we going to do differently? And holding you accountable and exploring

O'Ryan: I guess this might be a really good point then to back up and

maybe Touch on what ADHD coaching is for people who maybe have never heard of it before or understand why it's important?

Coach Alex: Yeah, absolutely. And also maybe just like taking one step back of what coaching even is. I think coaching

O'Ryan: Hmm.

Coach Alex: those terms where everyone views it a little bit differently. But it is a psychological field. There's a science behind it. US is catching up a little bit, but in other countries it is a recognized field.

It stands alone from clinical psychology or industrial organizational psychology. It's coaching psychology. we're using different theories, models, frameworks, and it's all about getting you to your goals. So when we're talking about ADHD coaching, we're putting on an ADHD lens of how is ADHD playing a role in you getting to your goals. Because we know that, you know, inattention, hyperactivity, impulsivity, those are all things that might pull you away, pull you closer. It just kind of depends. We're there with an understanding of how ADHD is playing a role to make sure you can succeed. And it's a collaborative partnership. So we're not telling you what your goals are.

We're not there to assign a treatment plan. Nothing like that. It's agenda, and we're going to help you find the tools to get there.

O'Ryan: I think one of the things that I was confused about in the beginning is okay, I know, I know a lot of folks go to therapy for ADHD and is there a difference? Can they work together? I guess I'm trying to understand the difference between the two.

Coach Alex: there is a large difference, but they can complement one another. so our clinical colleagues do incredible work. This isn't, okay, you need to pick coaching or therapy. A lot of people end up doing both. You probably maybe have a psychiatrist in the mix too, or a holistic doctor. CARE team members have great value. but really what the difference is, is when it comes to coaching. One, we're not assigning where we're going in this journey. We might help you find those goals. Sometimes you come in and you say, I want everything to be different, but I don't know what yet. We're trying to help you find what that new version of you is.

You don't have to know exactly what it is. But we're not there to chart the course for you. We're going to help you find the different paths. And a lot of times we're doing something a bit more collaborative. So I like to use the word tactical. Coaching isn't always tactical. It can be a really inspirational conversation.

There's a lot of insights gained. really become more aware of who you are and who you'd like to be. But there are tactical elements to it of let's open the calendar together, let's talk about your tooth brushing routine. We're going to look more deeply into the nitty gritty, and I think that's really where the differences shine of how much step by step is going to happen. Your coaches are walking right alongside you of every step you take, the coach is there to help you craft the next one.

O'Ryan: Okay. So I'm convinced coaching is a treatment that I want.

Coach Alex: That's kind of the unique thing about coaching too, it's not a treatment.

While there might be some conversations around treatment where you're looking at medication for support, we're not coming at it with that lens as a coach. we're gonna accept that ADHD is a natural variation of, it's not something to be pathologized, it's not an illness, a disorder, that's not what we're looking at it from, but we gotta work with it, because you have goals, you wanna get somewhere, so how do we take into account there's ADHD playing a role, but we're not treating it, you're not less than, you're not broken, we're just acknowledging ADHD is in the room, how are we gonna work with it?

O'Ryan: So what does that look like then?

I'm trying to understand, like what we would be doing, like the types of things we'd be working on and like how I should be thinking about things as we're going through it.

Coach Alex: the risk of giving a really vague answer, which is not my intention, coaching is so personalized. So it's not like you come in

O'Ryan: Hmm.

Coach Alex: we're, we're going to work on executive functions and now this is how you're going to handle, you know, time management. That's not the case. I think everyone has a different experience of how it's showing up at work or parenting, and their friendships they don't exist in isolation.

So we have to learn more about what's happening in your life, you know, Tell me what you see happening with time and then we're going to build from there, but it's not in isolation of like we're gonna practice memory and now you're gonna

O'Ryan: Hmm. Yeah.

Coach Alex: Recalling five things and then we're gonna do six things and we're gonna say that we're not doing that.

O'Ryan: It's not like night classes,

Coach Alex: No, it's

O'Ryan: night classes. Is that your experience, Trina? Hmm.

Coach Alex: You know, everyone's seen the symptom list where there's just checkboxes, but that doesn't actually reflect what it looks like in action of how does that impact your finances. a lot of conversations where people are surprised that ADHD is playing a role. They saw it in one area, and all of a sudden there's lightbulb of like,oh, that's ADHD too. And then more self compassion builds. There are certain things that we're going to be doing in session. We're going to be setting goals, we're going to talk about habit formation, but it's not prescriptive.

It really is, what are you coming to session for, and then together we're going to find what we're going to do next.

Trina: that's what I've found to be most helpful and something that, therapy doesn't really offer me. I, as someone who has both a therapist and a coach, I feel like it's just coaching feels more tactical to me and, I see progress there versus therapy can be a lot longer of a process, to heal some of that stuff.

I really like Shimmer's approach to looking at it as not like a disorder or, like not trying to treat quote unquote ADHD. and that's kind of how it comes across from the coach, which is, that's the part that I like. It's like I, I don't want to always be seeing the negative with ADHD, which is what happens.

Coach Alex: Yeah,

Trina: is meant to be strength based, I think strength based is one of those things that gets a negative rep of it's toxic positivity. I completely understand why people are saying that's what strength based work is, but it's not. it's not turning an eye to challenges. Challenges happen and we have to address them.

Coach Alex: There's useful information in those challenges. If we say, oh, we're only going to talk about the positive experience, we're almost eliminating like half the data set that we're working from, as you learn something from those challenges. in coaching, not about self blame there, of what went wrong?

What was it about you? But, there's things that happened that came together to create a challenge. The more we know about that, the more we can be resilient in the future and make change in a positive way.

O'Ryan: I love that this is becoming like a coaching consulting call for me.

Coach Alex: I mean, that might work best, is this worth my money? I'm getting it for free from my business, but if I had to pay, would I?

O'Ryan: Without divulging any like secrets I'm curious, what are the types of things that people are coming to you most often and to work on?

Coach Alex: it depends. It can be you know, there's a promotion that they really want. They want to upskill as a manager. They also want to make sure that they're doing a neuro inclusive approach in their management. It can be something like that. It can also be something as specific as creating a morning routine.

they want to feel a little bit calmer going into the work day rather than you're eating a granola bar in the car driving while driving going through Starbucks and telling your boss you're 10 minutes late. Maybe you don't

O'Ryan: Yeah.

Coach Alex: anymore. So it could be incredibly specific, or it can also be something where you haven't quite nailed down the details of your vision yet. You just know, I want to show up better as a parent. don't know what that means, but I don't like how I feel right now, and we can work with that too. Together we're going to find those details of You know, what would you see yourself doing? How would you know your child is feeling more connected with you?

How would you know you are of yourself as a parent? you don't have to have those details right away. And as you build that vision with your coach, it's going to become more and more real, and you're going to start feeling it and wanting it. And it can just start with a feeling. It doesn't have to be specific.

Trina: I feel like a lot of people listening would resonate to not really having a specific goal and not knowing like what to bring to their coach, but like maybe having someone alongside you that can help you, like figure that out.

Cause even like just setting goals is really challenging for a lot of people with ADHD. So just to have somebody there that kind of understands that process and understands a little bit about how our brains work. Seems very helpful to actually, move the needle and see progress in your life versus just kind of running on a hamster wheel, which is, how I saw my life before coaching versus how I see it now

Coach Alex: yeah, and I think by having that open concept of, okay, I'm just going to come in knowing that I, I want to feel something or want to be a certain way, but I don't know how to get there yet or what those actions will be, I think you start seeing all the different ways that coaching can work for you. Because I think people hear ADHD coaching and it just, okay, well, time management. Impulsivity, like of course, those are things we can work on. You can come in and save time management and your coach is going to work with you to see what that means and what tools Instructors are going to be successful.

Really unlocking more information from time management, which is also kind of vague. But we get it. We know exactly what that means once we start working with you. But you can also come in and say, I'm neurodivergent and I want to do really well in my career. Maybe nothing's going wrong in your career.

You just want to upskill. It can be career coaching. It can be executive coaching. Those are different variations of things that we work with in the room, just acknowledging that ADHD is there, too.

O'Ryan: I think that's one of the things that that's been holding me back is when I think about coaching a lot of times, having not started it yet, that, I tend to think about it as, as like symptoms, it's like symptom management, almost I'm like, okay, I need to get better at time management.

I need to get better at managing my daily to do's and Oh, you know, my memory is terrible. And and so when I look at it in that way, okay, yes, those things need to be fixed, but fixing, not fixed, but that's the way I'm feeling is I need to fix these symptoms. And so for me, I think like maybe it's that being connected to those goals and being connected to those things that I actually do want.

Trina: O'Ryan, I'm gonna step in here because I feel like the reason that you feel like they won't, like you feel like they will never get fixed, those things, like it almost feels like a

O'Ryan: maybe, maybe.

Trina: like these issues, quote unquote, kind of feel that big sometimes, where like they don't feel fixable or they don't feel like even worth tackling, I guess, because they're so big in our minds, so I think that that definitely does seem like a hold up.

See,

O'Ryan: this all out loud, I realize how ridiculous this sounds now saying it out loud, but I think in my mind, it, it represents a massive amount of work. And I think that that's the thing I'm like, what you were saying Trinidad, it just feels big and I'm like, I don't have the energy to start this work.

I just bought a book to learn Hawaiian and I've been wanting to learn this for three years. I bought the book and I haven't even opened it. I don't even want to look at the first page because I know if I open it, that means I'm going to have to sit down. and start the process of doing it and it just feels so overwhelming.

Coach Alex: Yeah, and, you know, I, I don't want to say what your goals would be, but you said, oh, I want to fix my memory.

O'Ryan: Yeah.

Coach Alex: that sounds big. I'm trying to fix my brain. That's, doesn't feel approachable at all. But, you

O'Ryan: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Coach Alex: that you see memory, you know, impacting your goals and you say, well, I really want to remember my mom's birthday. Then we have something very specific. It feels smaller and we're gonna keep bringing that into the picture of we're not trying to work with the entire brain all at once, but those small moments where you can feel proud of okay, I showed up for that. You know, I showed up as a son or I showed up as a brother.

I showed up as a friend. And that's where I saw memory playing a role. So how am I working in that moment? And that's the cool thing about coaching is you find those, those moments that you're working on. Because it's not meant to be, okay, I have one session and then I've gotten this brand new manual. It's building that manual across time. As you come up with new circumstances and situations, each one's going to be a little bit different. And then you build up your tools and what you're thinking about So each situation doesn't feel so isolated at the end. It starts coming together and telling a story and you know how to navigate that story now.

O'Ryan: It's that, that difference of what, like how do you eat an elephant? It's like bite by bite. it's true. I think, I think that's a lot of what, even just saying all this out loud, I'm realizing that a lot of the hesitation around even learning a new language, right. It's just, it feels like a gigantic activation effort that I'm just like, I don't want to, I can't do that yet, but

Coach Alex: A coach could help with that.

Trina: like not a negative thing that you want to devote a lot of time to it. I feel like there's, there's two ways to look at that.

O'Ryan: yeah, totally. Yeah. I think there is a level of perfectionism hidden in there too, right? being imperfect at something at the beginning is such a struggle.

not being perfect right away sometimes will stop me. And I, I know that it's going to take work to get there, but I think even just reframing it, like you said, Alex, in that, it's, it's specific to the situation, right? Like memory, yeah, I don't even know how to start to tackle that, but remembering my mom's birthday, that's a specific system that I can put in place

Coach Alex: Exactly, and it's making your goals more approachable.

O'Ryan: Hmm.

Coach Alex: we're not trying to change everything overnight. That is a really daunting feeling, but okay, well every day I'm going to take a step towards where I want to be, and I'm going to

O'Ryan: Yeah.

Coach Alex: that step could be, and the cool thing is there's tons of different paths.

You could start walking down one and you're like, oh this is not getting me where I need to go. not backtracking, we're just going to take a slightly different

O'Ryan: Yeah.

Coach Alex: all of a sudden it seems It's much more plausible that you achieve your vision of well being.

O'Ryan: For somebody out there who is also listening to this and thinking, okay, yeah, I'm convinced. I, I think I want to coach too. What, what would be your recommendation on, obviously we're all biased here at Shimmer, but what would your recommendation be for somebody who's looking for a coach right now? this is

Coach Alex: online or on Facebook. You're going to get someone that you love. it's a little bit more difficult than that to find the right match. And I would say, you know, the first thing is you're going to look for qualifications in coaching.

Like I said, it is a science. So you should be looking for someone that has studied coaching as a field. So there's National Board Certified Health and Wellness Coaches. That's a great credential to be looking at. It's really robust. I'm biased a little bit because I am one as well. there's also different accreditation bodies like ICF.

So you have different, coaching credentials through there, but. really look for someone that specifically is talking about ADHD coaching, because there's lots of coaches that don't specialize in ADHD coaching, and it's different. You approach it differently, the lens is different, and it's much more neuro-affirming, so that's the one thing you're really going to be looking for is that they're talking about some sort of neurodiversity coaching.

Most coaches that specialize in one area might have expertise in another, that's something to be considering. you're also going to be looking at those coaching hours are with. So they have, 10 years of experience of coaching. Well, how often are they meeting with their members? How long are the relationships with their members? You know, a coach that's worked with a thousand people, but they've only done one hour with each person, that might not match the journey that you're looking for. that's something to take into consideration when you're talking about years of experiences. How much coaching are they doing during those years?

That might help you make a better and more informed decision. type of coaching are they familiar with? So there are some coaches that do text based coaching. There's some coaches that meet in person or video. What are you looking for your life? That matters. The coaching looks a little bit different depending on the modality.

O'Ryan: starting to feel a little overwhelming. I can feel my like option overload kicking in.

Coach Alex: I was about to say it can feel really daunting and I think that's something, you know, I talked to a lot of coaches, you know, I'm involved in the hiring for Shimmer.

O'Ryan: Mm hmm.

Coach Alex: had so many conversations with amazing ADHD coaches. I think that's the benefit of going through Shimmer. I hate, I hate to say that.

It sounds like an advertisement. That's not my intention, but. you're going through an organization, you're not having to ask all those questions.

O'Ryan: Mm

Coach Alex: for this type of coaching, so like with Shimmer you're looking for video coaching, this coach specializes in video coaching. They specialize in ADHD.

They've had their competencies checked. It's sort of doing the manual labor for them. And you, instead of bringing your checklist to a conversation, which

O'Ryan: hmm.

Coach Alex: ABSOLUTELY can, and you should, if you're looking for a private practitioner. Ask these questions to make sure, you know, the question ends up being, is this going to be worth the cost. want to make sure that all the money you're investing is in someone who is actually an expert in this, and has experience, so these are things you deserve to know about their history. So it is something to consider, do you want to be having these conversations in different discovery calls with private practitioners?

Do you want to find an organization that can reduce this strain for you? that's absolutely something to think about. It may be almost a shortcut in a way of rather

O'Ryan: Yeah.

Coach Alex: to assess yourself as who can I trust to find me somebody.

if you could leave our listeners with one helpful piece of advice that you think is important to take Away from this what would you say it is?

I think it's always worth trying to invest in yourself. Of, if you try coaching and it's not for you, that's not a loss. That's something that you've learned about as well. Of, okay, well that's not what I need in my life right now. those are things that are impermanent. You can go into coaching and have a very long relationship.

Coach Alex: There's, there's clients I've been working with for two years now, improving and seeing what else we're learning about them. It's exciting to see how they change over time and how our relationship changes over time. But also maybe you try a few sessions and you feel like, hey, you know, three months, this was great.

I've gotten everything that I've wanted out of it. Perfect. Maybe try it and it wasn't for you, but it's always worth seeing what you can find out about yourself.

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