Intro: Hi. Hey. Hi! Hello. This is Dustin. This is Vik. This is Kyle. Chris and you're listening to Brainwaves. You're listening to Brainwaves. You're listening to BRAINWAVES your guide to all things ADHD adhd ADHD. Brought to you by Shimmer shimmer shimmer the number one coaching platform coaching platform for people people with ADHD with ADHD for people with ADHD

O'Ryan: My name is O'Ryan and today I am joined by my two co-hosts, coach Noelle.

Coach Noelle: Hello

O'Ryan: And Trina from my lady ADHD.

Trina @MyLadyADHD: Hi!

O'Ryan: So today we have a question from the community about motivation.

Nora: hi there, this is Nora from Asheville, North Carolina. I wanted to ask about motivation. I feel like I have all the motivation in the world, but some days I just cannot get started. What do I do?

O'Ryan: This is such a great question. Is this something that either of you deal with?

Trina @MyLadyADHD: I notice this a lot. I feel like sometimes I have all of the pieces in place to do the thing. I've rested, I've eaten something. I feel like I'm giving myself a really good chance to [00:01:00] get it all done. all my basics are met, but then I'm still really stuck. What is this?

Coach Noelle: So that's super interesting. for me, it feels more like there's a piece missing. Checked off all these boxes, right? I got to sleep, I ate, I took my meds, etc. And yet there's something still missing because I can't do the thing.

O'Ryan: Same thing. I feel like sometimes I feel I have everything that I need, but there's like some mysterious thing missing. They're like, if I just had that secret thing, if I could just figure out what that thing is, then I could solve this problem.

Trina @MyLadyADHD: Yeah, it does. It feels like it's never, if there's always a piece missing, like you both are saying, I definitely resonate with that.

O'Ryan: So I guess then is that missing piece motivation or I don't know, is that the thing? How do you get it? If it's motivation,

Coach Noelle: Well, I think that it's really important to define what motivation is because a lot of people have this misconception around motivation and thinking [00:02:00] about it as just a feeling, right? That sort of spark or energy or something that you just get, it just comes out of nowhere. And actually, if you look it up in the dictionary, motivation is defined as a process that initiates, guides, and maintains goal oriented behaviors.

O'Ryan: What does it mean? Like a process? What is that? Cause I hear that and I think Do I need a list of things to do to get to motivation? What does that mean?

Coach Noelle: Yeah i mean because the feeling of motivation

It's gonna happen if we're already super interested in something or excited about it, it feels more natural and instantaneous, but if you're not having that feeling and sitting there just waiting for it to happen, actually something that Russ Harris described as the motivation trap, idea that motivation is a feeling that just comes on its own and [00:03:00] research shows that the experience of actually feeling motivated doesn't occur until after the task is initiated.

So, the process we're talking about here is the things that you need to do, the strategies or whatever you need to do to start creating the dopamine that is necessary to feel that.

O'Ryan: so maybe even thinking about motivation is rather than this thing that occurs. It's more like momentum in a way. Like you, you get started and it's the thing that keeps you going once you're started.

Coach Noelle: Yeah, I think that's a good way to put it.

O'Ryan: Obviously everybody deals with, a lack of motivation every now and then or trouble getting started. But I wonder specifically for people with ADHD how is this experience different and what are some ways that maybe we can talk about this and understand that experience ,

Coach Noelle: Yeah, I like to use the analogy of a car to illustrate

And so, for a neurotypical person, you don't need [00:04:00] anything extra. The car is as is. A new car right off the lot, it works the way it's expected to work. ADHD brains, are structured differently, and utilize the dopamine, or the chemical fuel, that, we need to operate, utilizes that differently. And so, we have to do, a few extra steps. There's not an autopilot. We actually have to do some of the things we expect the car to do by itself on our own, like autonomously, we have to do those things. So, we have to figure out, A, do we have the fuel that is going to drive this car, and that's the dopamine, and if not, what can we do to fuel up the brain? And then, if it's not a matter of fuel, we need to look at, you know, are there other maybe indicator lights on the dashboard, other things that might be going on that are blocking [00:05:00] you?

Trina @MyLadyADHD: Yeah, I really liked the car metaphor. I resonate with that a lot. I know I, I read a book that's like a children's book. It's my brain is a race car and it's describing ADHD as a race car. And I really love that analogy because. It feels like that to me that I'm like in this race car brain.

I think it's hard sometimes to pinpoint like what is the fuel like what's missing in the car Does it need oil? Does it need gas? Does it need like what are those things? hard to figure that out sometimes when you have ADHD. There's, some, you're missing something, but you can't quite pinpoint what it is.

And how do you get to a place where you can figure that out?

Coach Noelle: There's a term ADHD paralysis, you've ever heard of that, but sometimes it's also called ADHD freeze, or there's a few different terms people will use, that's, I think, what we're looking at, and ADHD paralysis is basically the the feeling that you're overwhelmed or you're to focus or those things that are getting [00:06:00] in the way and you just can't make yourself take the next step. You're just stuck.

Trina @MyLadyADHD: Yeah, it does feel like paralysis. It feels like you can't get off the couch, or you can't make the next movement. You're just stuck. You don't know the next step, is how it feels, I think.

O'Ryan: I feel like a lot of times I end up in this situation where I'll either be like on the couch or like doom scrolling. Doom scrolling is probably the worst. That's definitely my advice where in my brain I'm like, O'Ryan, you gotta get up and do this thing. Like this task is due that like, why aren't we doing this?

But it's just so hard to break whatever's going on there. Are there ways? To deal with this. What's the underlying thing going on? And then how do we fix that?

Coach Noelle: Yeah, I guess the first step would be identifying what it, what is causing it. What is causing it, and there's three different types, or flavors, of ADHD paralysis.

O'Ryan: flavors of ADHD [00:07:00] paralysis? Like an ice cream.

Coach Noelle: Yeah. So, we got mental paralysis, task paralysis, or choice paralysis.

O'Ryan: choice.

Trina @MyLadyADHD: Not me, I think my flavor is mental.

O'Ryan: I feel like I always get stuck in like the endless choice of like where to start

Trina @MyLadyADHD: yeah

O'Ryan: unless maybe that's task. I don't know.

Trina @MyLadyADHD: I

O'Ryan: If we were to actually define these different types how are these defined? Cause actually now I'm curious.

Coach Noelle: Yeah. So the mental paralysis is when you're just super overwhelmed and you've got so much in your head it's all fuzzy. You just cannot pinpoint any one particular thought. It's just all buzzing around in there. I always think about the the room in Harry Potter the first one where he's like he goes into the room and there's all those keys buzzing around and he has to find the one among all of them. That's for me what mental paralysis looks like.

O'Ryan: I feel like that's a pretty good image of the inside of my brain.

Coach Noelle: yeah.[00:08:00]

O'Ryan: These keys always flying around.

Trina @MyLadyADHD: I think of that harry patter scene where they are trying to get

like something really high and all the gold cups keep multiplying the more you touch them.

Coach Noelle: yeah. So then there's the choice paralysis, which is, okay, there's way too many choices, and I really don't know which one is most important? Which one is most urgent? Right. just don't know which one to do and you get stuck. And then task paralysis is, just for that hesitation.

Maybe it's an emotional thing, like you're scared to start it. Maybe it's that imposter syndrome. You don't know like, if

O'Ryan: Hmm.

Coach Noelle: you're gunna do a good Job. There are other anxieties or worries around it, but. There's some kind of emotional thing that is attached to the task.

O'Ryan: Okay. I take it back. I feel like I have a Neapolitan of all three of these.

Trina @MyLadyADHD: Yeah, I actually really resonate with the task paralysis in a way where sometimes I just don't know the next step or I just feels like it's going to take me a long [00:09:00] time to figure it out and it feels overwhelming, which maybe that is the mental.

Coach Noelle: Sometimes hard to tell, which one is happening at any given time

O'Ryan: Are there things that might specifically trigger this, are there situations where we might be like on guard of this or more aware of this happening or is it just kind of anything? Okay.

Coach Noelle: particular strategy or framework, that Tamara Rosier presented in the book Your Brain's Not Broken, and it's called The Solve It Grid, and I think that can be really helpful for teasing out what's going on. So, if we're looking at emotional blocks or even just the ways we're thinking about or feeling about a task. The Solve It Grid can help you pinpoint that a little bit.

With the Solve It Grid, she is basically explaining that people with ADHD, since we have an interest based [00:10:00] nervous system, when we're presented with a task, we automatically, usually without even being aware that this is happening, ask ourselves, Okay, is this going to be fun? Interesting? Am I interested in this task? then how much emotional energy is this task going to take? And we're making those calculations, again, in the back of your mind, usually it's not really something we're always aware of. using the syllabic grid can help you be more aware of what thoughts and emotions are attached to various tasks. And then that way, once you pinpoint that, on this grid, where that task falls, there are specific strategies you want to use for each one.

O'Ryan: I see. So the Solve-it Grid is like a way to force you to be mindful of the situation rather than just letting your brain like auto evaluate, the amount of dopamine that you're going to get from this thing and then make decisions for you. You can actually [00:11:00] see on paper and be intentional about deciding these things.

Trina @MyLadyADHD: I feel like I'm really probably not great at estimating the emotional tax. I assume it's this big giant mountain or big giant cloud, but when you actually take it and look at it, it typically isn't. As big as you make it out to be which, you always have that hindsight afterwards where you've been dreading a phone call for two weeks and then you actually make the phone call and it takes two minutes, but I feel like maybe this solvent grid is a tool to help you break that down so that you're not like catastrophizing it in your brain.

Coach Noelle: Yeah, that it can give you that greater awareness so that hey, is it the fact that I'm catastrophizing? Is it the fact that the last time I did this I got, is it a bad report, or, there's a lot of mistakes? Is it the fact that this is going to take a long time, or I think it's going to take a long time? It helps you pinpoint what that is, and then we can identify the right strategies from there.

Trina @MyLadyADHD: It's [00:12:00] interesting. I know this is like a side note. But I think sometimes that for me It's oh, I actually need help and I'm avoiding asking for help sometimes So there's some of that like perfectionism that plays in or just like some people pleasing for me personally We're like, okay.

Yeah. Oh this next step is It's exhausting or stressful or overwhelming because I'm, I literally am stuck and I need to ask for help, but I just don't want to

Coach Noelle: for sure. That's a whole other topic right

Trina @MyLadyADHD: Yeah. Yeah.

Coach Noelle: shame and masking and all that.

So, I guess we can go into what the Solve It grid looks like, and start with it.

It's basically, she actually has a PDF On her website that you can download with the chart and the explanation of the colors. But, basically it's just a four quadrant grid. the horizontal left to right line is fun and not fun. And then the vertical line is at the top emotionally stimulating, at the bottom not emotionally [00:13:00] stimulating. So, you're looking at the top left quadrant. is red. Those are the things that are not fun, there's a high emotional stimulation involved. Then we've got yellow. It's not fun, but it's really not emotionally stimulating at all. And then we've got blue, which is, it's fun, but there's not a lot of emotions involved. And then green is, it's fun and emotionally stimulating. For example, The red stuff that's high emotions and no fun is gonna be maybe things that we procrastinated on, stuff that's like super urgent and the things we just really don't want to do.

It's gonna be really uncomfortable, but we know we have to do it anyway, and there's just all that pressure, That's why I like the color red for that one, because it's like, it's just that. that blaring light, that's going off, it's like emergency then the yellow tasks that are not fun and not emotionally stimulating, that's the tasks the ones that you're just like I have to do [00:14:00] this, and you know it's not going to be hard or time intensive or anything, Going through the mail, or, doing the dishes, or the laundry, it's just those, ugh, adulting tasks, then the blue quadrant is the stuff that's fun, but it's not emotionally stimulating. I like to think of that as the junk food zone. So, all the things we do passively that are interesting, but not, super fulfilling. So maybe you're scrolling on TikTok or Instagram or whatever that is. And those things in the blue quadrant, they'll recharge you a little bit. They'll give you a little bit more dopamine, but because it's so little, we have to do it for hours in order to actually get the energy we need in order to function. And that's why it's like the junk it is. It'll feed you.

It'll fuel your car, but it's not super efficient. And then we've got the green quadrant. So the things that are high emotions and fun. are the things that really give [00:15:00] us personal growth and joy and creativity and value based things. They may take a little bit more energy to invest in up front. But the overall gain is going to be way more. So, maybe, you have to take the time to plan a family gathering. And who's going to bring what, and, all that planning involved. But, once it's actually happening and afterward, you feel really fulfilled. If you have a nice family. So yeah, that's what the grid looks like.

Trina @MyLadyADHD: So wait, Noelle, is this something that like, okay, I'm stuck. I feel like this might be task paralysis. I'm going to pull out my grid and figure out what's going on. That's the tangible use of the Solve It grid. Is that how I'm

Coach Noelle: yeah, I think that's a great place to start because, Like I said, a lot of these the cognitions around, is this going to be fun or interesting or emotionally stimulating or not, is happening unconsciously most of the time. So if you notice you're stuck, you can pull this [00:16:00] out and be like, okay, the, I know I really have to fill out all this paperwork for my taxes. Is how emotionally stimulating is that for me? How much? fun, is that, for me. you can kinda put it on the grid, and, maybe it's yellow in January when you have plenty of time, then it slowly creeps into the red zone when it's April 13th, and there's not a lot of time left, so. Things, different tasks will change maybe what quadrant they're on based on external factors.

But yeah, I think that's a good place to start sleuthing your blocks.

Trina @MyLadyADHD: Yeah, I feel like in general, it's just having very deep curiosity about why you're stuck, what's going

Really taking a microscope and looking at it instead of just letting it destroy you, because that's what it feels like sometimes it's eating away at you and, you're, you go [00:17:00] into the shame spiral and you start feeling really bad and when instead well, let's really look at what's happening.

And if you need a tool to help you figure that out, then maybe the Solve It Grid is something, it's like a tool for your toolbox. It's not like the answer, but it's a tool that you can use in your ADHD toolbox, as I like to say.

O'Ryan: I feel like once you've done it a few times too, it, it starts to almost become a thing that you're like, Oh, I'm in the blue square right now. I better reevaluate. And it's, it almost becomes a thing that in the back of your mind you're using rather than actually having to pull this piece of paper or the PDF out or whatever.

Trina @MyLadyADHD: Yeah, and I feel like once you, so this is like the why of what's, like why it's happening. And so then you can move into okay, then Do we get past this? And I did want to mention,

of the tools, that I have in my toolbox is a book by my friend Jesse Anderson called Extra Focus, and he talks about the four C's of motivation which I think are Captivate, Create, Compete, Complete.

So [00:18:00] it's basically here are some tools that you can use once you figure out you're stuck. And once you figure out what the issue is, and I think there's a couple of versions of this. Also, Russell Barkley has a version. I think maybe taking the, this is what's happening, now how do I move forward?

There are some tools in the toolbox for that as well. Do you know of any other?

Coach Noelle: any other

Trina @MyLadyADHD: And, like, how to get from that Solve It grid to actually making progress or actually moving past that? Is there anything that you'd recommend?

Coach Noelle: Yeah, it really just depends on which quadrant you're in. Of the ways that I will How the client utilizes Solve It Grid is, okay, once we take, maybe you've got a to do list for the day or whatever, and you take each of your tasks and put it in a color quadrant, and then you can schedule your day Okay.

with that in mind. So for me, I'm thinking [00:19:00] maybe the red stuff, since it's high emotions and not fun, going to be super energy draining for me. I'm not going to want to do anything else after I've done that task. It may also mean That means I need to fuel myself up beforehand. That means I need to utilize the, motivation bridge idea of, okay, I need to add some, personal interest somehow.

I need to make it new somehow. Something that's gonna build up that and get you over the hump. And so, maybe you start your day with green or blue activities. to pump yourself up a little bit, and then launch into the red one. Maybe if you're in the yellow zone, okay, it's really not fun, and it's not emotionally stimulating.

I just feel ugh, maybe it's about, breaking it down into really small pieces. hey, every time I get up to drink, get a glass of water or go to the bathroom, I'm gonna put five dishes in the dishwasher. Something like [00:20:00] that. So breaking it down so it doesn't feel as yucky.

It's just, makes it feel easier.

O'Ryan: use all the time. It's if I go into the kitchen for any reason. Well I'm going to get a glass of water, but I'm also going to take this dirty glass, and I'm going to put it in the dishwasher.

Trina @MyLadyADHD: Yeah, I just think with ADHD, you have to get really creative with yourself. You have to turn everything into creative. We are really creative beings. A lot of people with ADHD have this crazy creative brain and so we get bored easily and we need to make things more creative and more interesting and more fun Yep.

Coach Noelle: I have to do all this extra work in order to do my work. That is frustrating and overwhelming and that alone can be its own block.

O'Ryan: It's exhausting.

Coach Noelle: yeah, for sure. I think that is one of the reasons that, coaching can be so helpful because it really gives you someone to So, A, identify, okay, [00:21:00] which of these strategies is going to work for me, and then figuring out how to actually implement them in your day to tailor them to your exact struggles. and then you create that plan. So, ahead of time, I will already know in advance, okay, when I feel this way, when I encounter this situation, I know exactly what I'm supposed to do. Instead of encountering it in the moment and being like, Well, now I have to go, take the time now to figure it all out.

If we can do that ahead of time and create that plan, it's, It takes away that frustration, I think.

O'Ryan: I think that brings up a really good point, because as you're working on these things, it can be really easy to say Oh, I messed up, or I fell short of this grand ADHD goal that I definitely probably set for myself and I didn't quite hit the mark. And so you end up in these shame spirals like, like Trina mentioned or just like it makes it even harder to get [00:22:00] motivated next time.

I wonder what do we do in these situations where that kind of perfectionism and the shame spiral is there a way that we can protect ourselves from those things? Yeah.

Coach Noelle: I wish there was an easy answer to that. A pill we could take like we do for but dismantling all that shame and guilt and all that can take some time and effort. There's different ways. I actually have a blog post on the, on Shimmer's website that's all about how to love your ADHD brain and kind of, come to self acceptance.

Some of it is around identifying the strengths that we have. Maybe ADHD causes us all these challenges and problems, but it also gives us some of these kind of positive things. maybe there are ways that we can change our mindset around our problems. Maybe it's about. It's really evaluating the thoughts we have about our symptoms to see, like, how accurate [00:23:00] they are.

Because a lot of times everyone is prone to maybe overgeneralizing this always happens, or catastrophizing make it, it seems like such a huge deal and then you actually do it and it's oh, that really wasn't a big deal at all predicting the future oh my god, this, this person's gonna be so mad at me, and then they're not. We're all prone to those things, but a few that people with ADHD are more likely to get into black and white thinking, it's all good or all bad, that kind of thing. Some of it might be evaluating the thoughts that we have about ourselves, and checking to see, okay, are any of these There's thinking patterns going on, and if so, how can I change the way I'm thinking about myself? And, creating a support system, finding people that get it whether that's your coach, or there's emotional, there's ADHD support groups,

Trina @MyLadyADHD: That was going to be my, tip here is that I felt a [00:24:00] lot of shame around ADHD, a lot more shame around having ADHD before I found the ADHD community. And once I started seeing other people like me and talking about ADHD, it's why I started MyLadyADHD. Is to find other people like me that I can resonate with. And so I feel like finding those little pockets of community, of people that really understand and get it is so, so helpful. It's like my number one tip for people with ADHD is to find more people like you. Cause it really does help release a lot of that shame, I think.

Coach Noelle: oh yeah. For me, it was when I was diagnosed. And I had that sort of lightbulb moment of, this is why I haven't been able to do X, Y, and Z. This is why I'm struggling with this stuff. It gave me, a clear idea of what the problem is, so then I could figure out, okay, what do I do about this problem? The [00:25:00] problem became more external. it's, oh, it's ADHD. It's this thing. It's not who I am as a person. I'm not lazy. I have a lack of dopamine.

O'Ryan: Yeah I know like I was late diagnosed probably four years ago and prior to that it was this constant struggle of seeing other people seemingly being able to like deal with these challenges very easily. It just came really naturally, Oh, they can get up in the morning and get to, work or school on time.

Being able to just get their tasks list done. Have all these things. It's seemingly in order, at least from an external perspective. Obviously it's much more complex than that, but then for me, it's well, I must be a failure. I must be like, there's something broken here because I can't do this and they're able to do it.

And they're obviously struggling with the same thing I'm struggling with and succeeding. And so I think as we start to like deconstruct all of these things that are ADHD. And not necessarily us or like a failing on our part Being able to [00:26:00] have some self compassion and being able to make space for The fact that yes, your brain is doing some weird stuff And now you just need to deal you need to figure out how to both understand it But then how to optimize for the weirdness of your amazing brain I

Coach Noelle: by people with ADHD who get it, then it's like you're, you're a zebra comparing yourself to a herd of horses. not a fair comparison. Of course the zebra is not going to be able to, run a race like a Thoroughbred would. But then the zebra gets with other zebras, and it's oh, well, yeah, of course I'm this way. I'm a zebra. That's just how I'm built. And it's not shameful anymore. It's just, Hey I'm this person.

O'Ryan: love that

Trina @MyLadyADHD: this is a side note, but I did have a, I have that light bulb moment at the ADHD conference when I was surrounded by a bunch of zebras for the first time. I was like, it was like the wizard of Oz scene [00:27:00] where it's black and white and then it gets into full color. That's how I felt Whoa, there are other people out here like me.

And it's very, empowering to. Realize that. So I just want to mention again how important I think community is in this

Coach Noelle: It, self compassion may be the most under underappreciated tools managing ADHD because it's such a huge block to getting things done. If you have read or heard anything by Brene Brown, then what I get from her stuff is that shame makes you hide. It makes you avoid. And of course, if you're ashamed of yourself or your performance. you're going to avoid doing the tasks are related to that. And so in order to combat that shame and get over that block and be able to do the thing, have to have self compassion.

O'Ryan: There's a big massive feedback loop there, right? Where [00:28:00] like ADHD, some of these things attached to our ADHD, these symptoms create the shame. And then shame then creates this very low dopamine situation where you don't want to deal with that thing again. And so you hide from it, you avoid it, which then causes more shame, which then further makes that thing less enjoyable.

And it's just like an endless loop of I don't want to do this.

Trina @MyLadyADHD: That feels like such a gut punch. Like

You're saying feels like that's, it's so resonates. I think it resonates with a lot of people with ADHD, which is why it's really important to talk about it. and share those things so that you can resonate with other people about it. So,

O'Ryan: I think that's our, I think that's our hope with this kind of newsletter and podcast that we're working on here is that this can be a way for us to build community and to talk to each other and say Hey, yeah, I am dealing with this and this is how I've solved it. This is how I've dealt with it.

Just being able to be in a [00:29:00] herd of zebras.

Annabelle: Hello, this is Annabelle and you're listening to Brainwaves, your guide to all things ADHD. Brought to you by Shimmer, the number one coaching platform for people with ADHD.

O'Ryan: Today, we talked about motivation and ADHD paralysis. We explored why sometimes we feel motivated, but can't start. And how this affects those of us with ADHD. We discussed different types of ADHD, paralysis and strategies to overcome them like the Motivation Bridge and the Solve-it Grid. You'll find links to both of these resources and more if you're subscribed to the newsletter or at shimmer.care/brainwaves. Got a question for us or want to be featured in a future episode, head over to the website over at shimmer.care/brainwaves to submit your question.

Until next time.

‍