O'Ryan: Hey there, my name's O'Ryan, and today I am joined by my co host, Trina, from MyLadyADHD,

And Coach Noelle will be producing behind the scenes today.

and a special guest, Meredith Carder.

Meredith Carder: Hello, thanks for having me.

O'Ryan: We're so excited to have you. Meredith is an ADHD coach, a content creator, and the author of It All Makes Sense Now. So, Meredith, I don't know, maybe you could give us a little bit of an intro about you, and the book that you're working on.

Meredith Carder: my name is Meredith Carder, as you said. I live in the Phoenix, Arizona area. I'm a mom of three kids, and I have been working in the ADHD coaching space for several years now. I found out that I had ADHD. shortly after my daughter was diagnosed with ADHD and just consumed all of the information that I could possibly find on the topic.

It definitely became my hyper focused subject for a while and still is. I transitioned into ADHD coaching and as I worked with more clients and expanded my knowledge, I really felt like there was not a book out there that was really checking the boxes for what I needed for myself and what my clients needed. I wanted something that just made me feel a little bit more connected to how ADHD showed up for me as a late diagnosed woman. But I also wanted strategies and ideas and information on how to live better with ADHD. So that is the basis for my book. It just came out a couple weeks ago.

Trina: Yay.

O'Ryan: So you and Trina actually know each other.

Meredith Carder: Yes, Trina and I met online as you do these days. Trina and I, I feel like we were baby content creators together when we first both started talking about ADHD. What was that? Probably three years now, I think. I think I've

Trina: Yeah.

Meredith Carder: for about three years. We just started DMing and supporting each other's content and then we met in person at the Chad ADHD conference and then have collaborated on quite a few things.

Trina: Yep. Yep. She was on my podcast back in the day and I asked, actually hosted an ADHD women's retreat last year and Meredith was my main guest speaker at that event which was awesome. So. Yeah. It's been really, really awesome seeing your journey and now seeing your book and actually holding your book is very, very cool.

O'Ryan: as a parent, I am sure you are familiar with today's topic burnout. I would love to talk to you about burnout because I think we everybody at Shimmer and especially on the content team here we are very familiar with burnout. Could you maybe for our listeners, just give a really brief introduction to what ADHD burnout is?

Meredith Carder: So ADHD burnout is a little bit different than the burnout definition we know in just greater society, right? ADHD burnout is kind of that next level, or it's burnout caused by all of the reasons everybody else is burned out. but also because of all of the symptoms and challenges we deal with as people with ADHD. And I think that difference is really important to note because our strategies for preventing burnout and recovering from burnout need to be different than the recommendations given to the rest of the people in society dealing with burnout.

Trina: Back in 2021, when I started creating content kind of around the same time as Meredith someone had sent me a meme about ADHD burnout. And when I heard the term, I resonated with it. immediately, but I had never heard it before. And so I went down the rabbit hole and started, you know, like, what is this?

I resonate with the term, but I don't know what it is. I've never heard it before. I Googled it and I've never forgotten the definition because it hit me like a ton of bricks. I resonated with it. So. so much. It described my entire life. So I'm just going to read that to you real quick, just because I know it will resonate with other people. So when I Googled it back in 2021, it was ADHD burnout is the cycle of over committing and over extending that leads to fatigue in people with ADHD. It involves taking on too many tasks and commitments and then the subsequent exhaustion that happens when we're unable to fulfill all of our obligations. When I read that,

O'Ryan: Yep.

Trina: completely blown. I thought the internet had figured me out and this was the definition of my entire life. And yeah, I just feel like other people need to hear that, that maybe it's not you. Maybe it's not, like, maybe there is a word for something that you're going through and maybe it's called ADHD burnout.

So I just, I've always loved that definition because I resonate so much with it.

O'Ryan: So are you saying that this is not something that a non ADHD person would have in the same way? Because this has always been my assumption. Whenever I, in the past, especially prior to diagnosis, feeling these burnout symptoms, My, I don't know if it's internalized shame or any of these other kind of complicated emotions that go with this, but I've always assumed that this is just, this is just how everybody feels.

This is what everybody's dealing with.

Meredith Carder: I do think that burnout is something that people experience It's everywhere, right? Especially in modern society, we have so many demands placed on us, and a lot of times it's just not realistic and, yeah, burnout happens. We tend to overcommit, we're taught to overcommit in our lives. The difference with ADHD is that we struggle with a set of executive functions that mean that when we overcommit, it's not just a matter of, okay, I can say no to a few things, or I can make a couple of minor adjustments and I can get a little more support at home or at work. And then the burnout is, fixed And it's not that simple really for most people.

It's usually a combination of things, but for ADHD, we're dealing with all of those same pressures, but we have struggles with estimating our time properly. Prioritization is an executive function we struggle with, which can lead to a lot of issues with managing our time. Hyper focus even, which a lot of us with ADHD enjoy.

It's that tendency to really tune into one thing and work really hard on it or study it for a long period of time. We can be really, really productive during those times, but during hyper focus, sometimes we're not eating. Sometimes we're not sleeping well because we're up late at night and it all contributes to that feeling of exhaustion and not being able to handle what's on our plate.

O'Ryan: Something we talk about a lot on all of these episodes. I'm noticing now that it's a recurring theme. It is this kind of feedback loop of ADHD symptoms where one symptom will flare up and it'll trigger a bunch of other symptoms, which then will re trigger that original one. You just get in this cycle of just.

Symptoms, feedbacking on each other. I get the sense that that's a lot of what's going on here. Trina, what are your thoughts here?

Trina: interesting when you're, I was reading your book recently, Meredith, and you do talk about hyperfocus and how that can contribute to burnout. And I know you just mentioned it right there, but I do wonder sometimes with our audience, like they might not even know what hyperfocus is. So I'm curious if we can go like take a step back and like. Define what that even is because I just, that's all, there's all this terminology with ADHD that I'm used to talking about, but I don't know for sure if like the new ADHDers are familiar. I just read that part of your book where you were talking about hyperfocus and how it kind of feeds into burnout.

So I'm curious, like, what hyperfocus actually looks like.

Meredith Carder: Yeah. Let's talk about it. Let's back up a little bit to even just the name ADHD. Attention deficit is in there. So oftentimes we think that it's just, A struggle paying attention to things. It's a struggle with focus. But really, it's attention dysregulation would be a better way to describe what we deal with, with ADHD.

So sometimes we can't pay attention to something, no matter how hard we're trying, or we're getting distracted, or we're tasked with something. Switching a lot. But there's another side of this coin that ADHDers experience, which is called hyperfocus. So that again is a dysregulation of focus, but usually it's in, it's presenting as being really laser tuned into something. So it's that feeling where at some point in the day you're working on a work project and you kind of forget what's going on around you. It's harder to feel the passage of time. You are problem solving, you're getting something done, or you're learning something and you're really, really into it. And you're probably working at a pace that other people probably couldn't even comprehend working when you're in hyper focus and it feels really good.

And most of us enjoy that phase. We enjoy being hyper focused until someone tries to interrupt us until we have to switch our focus because it's five o'clock and we have to go pick up our kids from daycare or we have to go to a work meeting or something like that. Hyperfocus is that kind of like heightened state of focus where everything around us seems to disappear except for the thing that we're working on or focusing on.

Trina: Hmm.

O'Ryan: It's so hard because I feel like a lot of the things that we deal with, especially with all these executive function challenges, it's, it all ties back to that dopamine issue,

Meredith Carder: Mm

O'Ryan: chasing that dopamine. And then when you actually do get in one of these flow states where the dopamine is flowing, like you're doing exactly like, this is the The dream, right?

And then you have to pull out because you have some sort of time collapse. You forgot to eat. You, like you said, you got to go pick up the kids. That again, feels like one of those feedback loops where even in the moments where you do get hyper fixated and you have to pull out.

And now it just adds to that. I had it, it was there. I felt that, that feeling of flow. I want that back.

Trina: it's, it's super tough because like, like Meredith was saying, like, I could, I could definitely see how that can lead to burnout because you are forgetting your basic needs. You are forgetting to. eat and shower, whatever, like if you're in a hyper focused state and like, how long can that last? Like, how long does a hyper focused state last?

Because sometimes I feel like it can be weeks of me, like researching something that I'm obsessed with. And like, I lose all of that time. Or sometimes it's just an hour here or six hours. I'm building a website and I can't do anything else but build a website. but I do know, like, I feel like it can last a lot longer also.

Meredith Carder: Yeah. I feel like a true hyperfocus is not going to be like, like you're sleeping, hopefully, hopefully you're sleeping in a week's span, but you can be locking into that state really, really frequently over a course of time if you're really into what you're working on. You're really excited about it.

O'Ryan: So one, one thing that I'm, I'm wondering right now is. Obviously we've talked about everybody experiences burnout in some form. You can get hyper fixated. You can, you can be in these dopamine slumps where you're starving for that dopamine. How do you know when you're actually in a ADHD burnout?

Meredith Carder: I think there's a lot of signs leading up to it that we should be thinking about and seeing. Signs that you are getting burnt out or already burnt out are things like just tired all of the time, that feeling of just intense exhaustion, that getting a few good nights of sleep is not curing the feeling of just feeling more apathetic about things that typically you are excited about. if you've been in one of those hyper focused all of a sudden you don't care about that thing anymore. Or you're starting to not care about that thing. Really low motivation, low mood and just general feelings of not being able to task initiate. We struggle with that. Obviously, as people with ADHD , but trying to use the tools that you have and them not working and really feeling like the only thing that you can think to do is, is rest and not move forward.

O'Ryan: I've definitely felt that apathy, like you said, where, you know, I'll, I'll be super excited about a project, but maybe I have so many things going on in my life and I've just got too many stacked commitments and I'm starting to notice that and then I go into this kind of spiral of. losing interest in the things that I really enjoyed. And I, I see this a lot in like, just cyclical hobbies. Right. But then also just that, that feeling of like, I just want to go to sleep. I just want to, like, I'm just going to take a nap and maybe I'll do that thing later.

Trina: I don't know, I have a tendency to like push through burnout in a way that isn't

O'Ryan: Hmm.

Trina: and I will completely crash, whether I want to or not. So I don't know how common that is, but I will generally just like work through it, like slush through it, and it's really hard, and be really tired and get through it, but then I will crash and physically be sick.

Like I'll, I'll get sick and I'll have to be out for a week or two and my body will just say enough is enough. And that's kind of like, I see the warning signs, but I don't really do enough to like prevent it. So I'm, I'm working through that, but I wonder if that's like a common thing with

O'Ryan: Yeah. Do you think maybe that's part of the reason why ADHD folks Deal with that so hard is that we know, like, okay, I'm, I'm just starved for dopamine right now that when you get to the normal, like burnout stage, it's like, ah, this is normal. This is what I experienced all the time.

This is my normal state. So I just have to push through. Do you feel like maybe it's that constant, like

Trina: the fact that,

O'Ryan: pushing through?

Trina: of us are struggling all the time with a lot of things, and, you know, this is just one more thing that we're struggling with, and we're just expected to push through sometimes.

O'Ryan: Hmm.

Trina: Because it doesn't look from the outside to other people that we might, we might not look like we're struggling as much as we are.

Meredith Carder: I think that's a really good point. I often talk about burnout with people and they're like, I have no good reason to be burnt out. Like, I can't justify feeling this way because my job's not as busy as my friend's job and she's doing fine, or I have less kids, or I don't have any or I have all of these reasons why I'm not allowed to be burned out.

So

O'Ryan: Hmm.

Meredith Carder: those signs. And it creates that cycle because what you're describing, Trina, when we start having those physical symptoms like the headaches, like getting physically ill, our immune systems down, that is real. And that is our body literally putting on the brakes. And for some people that can last longer.

months and it really is something that we want to stay ahead of but we don't feel like we deserve to make those changes or reprioritize because not everybody understands these symptoms we're dealing with.

Trina: Yeah, I was going to mention that like after the women's retreat that I hosted last year, I got back from that trip and had a massive burnout. real extensive burnout that I've experienced and it did last me about six months. And during that time, I took it as a time to reevaluate what I wanted to bring back into my life to prevent burnout in the future. And what I wanted my life to look like, you know, moving forward. So I know that's probably a piece of prevention is just like, I don't know. I'd love to talk about prevention because I really don't want to get to that point. I really don't want to get to the point where I'm burnt out for six months and have to reevaluate my whole life.

Like I would love to like work on it as I go, instead of being forced to work on it. any tips you have for prevention would be amazing.

Meredith Carder: Yeah, let's talk about it. I feel like prevention is the path that most of us should really be focusing on when it comes to burnout. If you're already there, obviously you need to get through some of that, just like physical recovery state. But if we are burned out and go back to our lives just like they were before, it's going to be a cycle.

So prevention really is the most important part. There are some things I work with, with my clients and I'm sure Shimmer's coaches really prioritize these things to, to create kind of like a life and a lifestyle that is a little bit more ADHD friendly and will help you prevent the cycle from continuing.

And one of the first things I work on is learning to prioritize. So prioritizing is one of those things that falls under the executive functions that we struggle with. So a lot of us are opening our calendar every day and seeing all of these things that should be done. and they all feel like a priority.

We really have a hard time choosing which one to prioritize. So then we get overwhelmed and we procrastinate and that workload just keeps feeling heavier. So working on skills that build an ability to prioritize. Another thing that's really important to work on is pacing. So that kind of ties back to the hyper focus thing. A lot of us really are, they say ADHDers are sprinters, not marathoners. So we go really, really hard on things, and then we wear out and we need to rest. And sprinters rest, right? Like, if you watch athletes, they, they run really fast, but they're not running really fast for, like, miles and miles and miles. They get to the finish line, they rest, people bring them Gatorade, they recover. And as ADHDers, we're those people. Sprinters, but our society doesn't let us recover or we don't let ourselves recover. So figuring out one, how not to run so fast all of the time that we are collapsing at the finish line and two, making sure we honor those big energy swings.

It's okay for us to want to work hard on things and to get into that hyper focus. But we also have to look at our calendar and not expect a Monday that was super hyper focused. We can't expect the rest of the week to mimic that and then beat ourselves up trying to keep that pace throughout the week. So looking at a more reasonable pacing in our schedules, being better at predicting, Oh, I have four podcast interviews on this day. Tomorrow probably needs to be a day where I don't people as much, that I Focus on some restorative activities and allowing for that and not feeling like we are not entitled to that rest or we don't deserve that rest, I think is really important. Another thing that's important for prevention is purpose. So knowing your purpose for people with ADHD, we're very purpose driven, we're curiosity driven and interest driven. So if we have a lifestyle change, Style that feels kind of boring most days. We need to find some things to fit into that lifestyle, that take care of our needs for interest and curiosity. And it seems kind of kinder counterintuitive, right? Like you're burned out. Why are you adding more assignments? to our plate, right? Like now we got to go entertain ourselves. But when we have goals and we have something we're working toward, it helps with everything else in terms of having enough dopamine to task initiate and move on with other projects. And then the last one I work on after we kind of nail down some of those other ones is perfectionism. So a lot of us with ADHD, are doing way too much. We're trying to

O'Ryan: Huh.

Meredith Carder: perfectly. We are very all or nothing with how we approach a lot of things. So, looking at the ways where perfectionism is contributing to burnout is really, really important too.

O'Ryan: Man, I need somebody to bring me some Gatorade now.

Meredith Carder: Yeah, where's our Gatorade?

Trina: I love, I actually love that, like, analogy of the sprint runner. Meredith, I know you're a runner, so you probably also resonate with that, but the sprinting until I collapse wow, that one is real and feels like maybe I'm sprinting too long, like I'm sprinting past where a normal person would stop.

Meredith Carder: Yeah, we're like trying to sprint the marathon instead of pacing through the marathon. Like we are not sprinting the right race length, right? And we're not taking that time in between to take care of ourselves so we can do it again.

Trina: Oh, man. man.

O'Ryan: One thing we've, we've talked about a bunch is this idea of ADHDers being a zebra in a herd of horses comparing themselves to these horses and the horse's capabilities. And I love this, this metaphor, because even like in the running such situation, like zebras are, are not good, like long distance runners.

They're sprinters. And so like, here we are surrounded by race horses who can run, you know, tons and tons of laps, but like, I'm a sprinter. If I'm sprinting, I can't keep up with a marathoner for the length of time. I'm running faster than them, but I'm looking at their time and saying, well, they're, they're continuing to go.

So I should keep going.

Trina: Hmm.

O'Ryan: But like, it's, it's a different type of, of movement there. It's a different type of work.

Trina: really

O'Ryan: I think that that's important. Yep.

Trina: a lot of zebras that we work with, so I don't think feel that same push. I think when you surround yourself with other people with ADHD, you feel more like a zebra in a zebra world, and it's a lot easier. It's not, it's not possible for everyone to find that, but that's why I always push for finding community.

Meredith, I know you probably push for that. It's like a big part of having ADHD is finding other people, other zebras that you can resonate with. I think that can go a long, long way. Yeah.

O'Ryan: seeing other zebras. You're like, Oh, that's me. Like, I see the difference now. I see the difference between a zebra and a horse when I can look at it externally.

Trina: and there's something amazing about sprint runners. Like, that is not something that everyone can do. I mean, I feel like the horses are probably envious, but you know, they don't say it enough.

Meredith Carder: and I mean, and that's what really, it's that concept of neurodiversity, right? That it's not wrong to be a sprinter, but if you're a sprinter and you're trying to act like a marathoner, you're, it's not going to work, right? And it's not going to work, that marathoner is not going to be able to sprint that distance at that speed.

And neither of these neurotypes are wrong, but if we're trying to, you know, run the wrong race, then we're going to have problems.

O'Ryan: we've been talking a little bit about just kind of being aware of that let's, let's say that I'm in the middle of a burnout. I've realized I'm listening to this podcast and I'm like, Oh crap. I've been sprinting through a whole marathon. what do I do? what should I do right now?

Meredith Carder: I think first, take that time to just honor what is going on in your body. If you need to take time to rest, if you need to cut whatever it is that you can cut, do it. because you want to get yourself back to kind of that baseline level where your brain is just feeling at least okay enough to try some new strategies and do some re evaluating.

And for some people, that's a couple of days. for some people that's months and that can be really, really hard if you're really in that burnout cycle where you're just feeling very, very stuck. Once you are ready to start adding things back if you've had to stop something or if you've had to quit your job or quit something that was important to you. I think it's really important to take some time and look at, okay, what were the top contributors to my burnout? Because it's going to be different for everyone. So take some time to think about, is it over committing? Am I doing a lot of tasks that are really difficult for me all of the time? And the work that I do and not enough that actually light me up and that I feel good at and I feel positive with is my lifestyle and job set up to play to my strengths, or am I constantly trying to manage deficits? So looking at that big picture of is this a situation I want to go back to, right? And we all have to make a living, so it's not that simple of everybody just quit your job and find a new one, but thinking about what's, what's really happening here are you, is perfectionism at play? Are you trying to be the room mom at your kids school, train for a marathon, eat perfectly healthy all of the time, and be the best at your job? Like, there sometimes needs to be an acceptance that you need to choose what life domains you want to focus on the most, whether that's work, home, personal, those types of things. And Start saying no to things, even things that you might really actually want to say yes to. So starting to really evaluate the big picture, building those skills about prioritizing and pacing. This is where like if you have the resources to work with an ADHD coach, it can be really, really helpful because these are not like a burnout prevention and recovery is not your top tip to be able to get over this, right?

It's really, really personal and you sometimes need those other eyes to help guide you to your answers to recover from burnout. But I definitely think the first step is knowing what got you there and being very, very curious about how things can look different.

O'Ryan: I think, I think you made a really important point there, and I just want to double down on it, that it's, it is a privilege to be able to take time off, and, and not everybody can, and that if you're in a position where maybe there are parts of your life that are completely inflexible, that it's okay that you have to push through those in those situations, but it's also important that you are able to find a way to stop running that marathon, right?

And so I'm curious if, obviously this is a really specific Ask, but I'm curious if there are things that we can kind of look at that maybe don't, or we can be a little bit considerate of that.

Meredith Carder: Yeah, absolutely. So I think something we can do to really start building that awareness of some of the smaller tweaks that might need to happen is creating routines around transitions and planning. So, I do a Monday planning meeting with my group every Monday where we, everybody looks at their calendar and takes some time to really be honest with themselves about what's happening here. Are some of these things, things that need to be here or are they things I want to have on here? Do I need to have a conversation with my boss that they assigned me three projects and they have no idea I'm working on these other ones over here? And just taking that time to kind of look at things with a really honest look and see what's realistic, right?

So getting into some habits around evaluation on a weekly and daily basis. I really like a transition routine as a way to close out your day every day. And this can look different for everyone, but like getting to the end of your work day and writing down what you got done. What was really hard? What do you maybe need to ask for help with? And evaluating that. I also like a rating system when I'm really feeling like I'm burned out, but I don't know why I'm so burned out. So taking some time to be like, okay, here's what I did today. And I'm feeling like a seven. I'm feeling pretty good. So maybe that was a really good level of scheduling for my day. And keeping that in mind as you, you go forward with planning. Right. And then if you have a day where you're like a one, it was way too, to overscheduled, seeing what wiggle room you have in that, what, what can you do to make that a little bit easier? Are there projects that you're really having a hard time with that you need to ask for support on?

Or are there things that you don't know how to do it that if you ask for someone to help you build that skill at work, you'll be able to move through those things faster. So it's really just taking that time to look at, okay, here's what happened. do I want tomorrow to be? And it can really reduce some of that mental load of like, Oh my gosh, I'm so stressed and so burnt out.

I have no idea why.

O'Ryan: I love that as we've been doing this podcast and we've been diving deep into these topics, I'm noticing so many of these ADHD challenges and symptoms and features, all of these things, they're so deeply intertwined with each other. Cause like even just, just listening to what you were saying about like, You know, just communicate with your boss and tell them about your projects.

But then it's like, well, then you've got the shame cycle and you've got all these other things and like just communication difficulties, all these things just add to the, the experience of ADHD.

Meredith Carder: Yeah,

Trina: It's all connected, isn't it?

O'Ryan: it's so connected.

Trina: want to just echo what Meredith said because I think people with ADHD, me, me in particular struggle with even knowing how much you did that day because you, you

O'Ryan: Hmm.

Trina: like, oh, I didn't get anything done. And so Meredith's transition you know, what did you call it?

Transition routine? Your transition routine of writing down what you did that day can be so eye opening and I've caught myself going, wait, I didn't really do anything today and beating myself up and then writing it down and being like, Oh wait, you. Launched a podcast today or whatever it was like major things.

Like usually they're much, much, many, many more things than maybe a neurotypical person did it a day, but it just doesn't feel like you did a lot. So I think there's something huge to be said for just writing down, what did I do today? Or people call it a to done list or a to da list or something like that.

But I think that's really critical for people with ADHD. Cause we, we just don't remember or. We minimize our wins and it's really sad that we can't remember all the things we're doing all day.

Meredith Carder: yeah. I love a, I call it a done list. I like to the list though. That's a really fun one, but it

O'Ryan: That is fun.

Meredith Carder: also why we get into that cycle of trying to sprint the marathon, right? Because we don't feel like we're done enough, so we keep, keep running, right? We didn't, we don't feel like it's far enough. And when we look at a day and see, oh, okay, I did do all of this, how am I feeling about that workload?

It can help us structure what we can take on if we have flexibility to say yes or no to certain things. And if we have a, of a done list that's like really extensive and we have a headache and we're exhausted then we're like, okay Well, I did accomplish those things But at what cost and can I keep doing this every single day because that's another trap we fall into is thinking Okay, this day's productivity.

Yeah, we did it. We pushed through it. We got it done But knowing when okay, I need to reprioritize Maybe tomorrow a little bit and see if we have a way to slow down in one domain of our lives if it's not our job.

Trina: Yeah, I really like

O'Ryan: It's making,

Trina: system that you came up with. I think I'm going to try that. Like, just numbering. How did I feel after accomplishing all of these things? And am I at a one today? Okay, wait, do I have the same schedule tomorrow? Maybe I should re evaluate that. So.

O'Ryan: that's good.

Trina: me.

So thank you.

Meredith Carder: Yeah, and it's not like all these things sound like oh my gosh I have to do this for the rest of my life. Like every day I have to rate everything. It's not always that way. It's a skill that gets built over time, but that's a framework that can help you begin to build those skills.

O'Ryan: It's, it's that work in the beginning to just establish the habit, the practice that then becomes ingrained. It's something you do second nature. It's interesting. I'm listening to all of these things. And again, I'm, I'm kind of getting swept up in the whole connected part, but I wonder if part of this is that I know for a lot of ADHDers, we don't find as much joy in the completion of the project.

In fact, sometimes the completion of the project, represents a cliff in dopamine, right? We get so much of this joy in the process and the doing and expectation, and then it drops off. And I wonder if that contributes to that feeling of, I haven't done anything. It's because you're doing all this work and then it drops off and then you have to go pick up something else to get that dopamine high again.

Trina: Interesting.

O'Ryan: I wonder, are there specific strategies and methods that we can kind of be aware of are used to be aware of to, to watch for these burnout triggers.

Meredith Carder: Yeah, I think it is like a thing to know about yourself, right? That it's that last like five percent of that project when I'm almost done that it starts to kind of happen, right? And then I feel really low and one, I think just knowing that and that that's kind of normal for people with ADHD. I think it's normal for all humans, but it's elevated for us, right? They say people like have depression after their weddings or after accomplishing a big goal. That is normal. But being aware of that and not necessarily trying to fight that need for like a lower period, if it's very dramatic and we're like in a true like depressive state, that's going to be really challenging.

So knowing that, okay, I have this big goal coming, I might feel a little bit low for a while. What can I do to take care of myself during that time that isn't committing to writing the next book or, you know, hopping into a new like really intensive thing because over time we can't keep that pace right? So thinking about okay I've accomplished this one, how am I going to celebrate it? How am I going to lean into that? Because oftentimes we, like you said, we get so much joy in the like the, the working towards the thing and the process, which is awesome, right? But like, then we skip over the celebration. So that part is important too.

We have to celebrate in some way because that's, that's where the dopamine comes from, the reward, right? And we work to anticipate the reward, but then when we don't let ourselves have the reward, it's going to be a lot harder the next time we want ourselves to do. a similar type of thing. So thinking ahead of time, okay, when I'm done, how do I want to celebrate?

And it doesn't mean throw a party every time. It can, it can be a party. Parties are fun, but like how am I going to reflect on this? Am I going to write about it? Am I going to share it with friends and family? Am I going to how am I going to acknowledge completing this? And that can be on a small scale or a big scale.

scale and taking that time and then also asking yourself that question of like, what are those other things I enjoy that I put off to focus on this? And maybe that's like a morning routine of a walk that you really liked. Okay. Now I have time for this. So allowing yourself to go into some of those gentler activities that aren't like going to trigger another major hyper focus immediately when you haven't recovered from the first one.

O'Ryan: Speaking of books and celebrations,

Trina: to say that Meredith

O'Ryan: Really practices what she preaches because you did have a party to celebrate your book. I saw that you had like a reward for yourself. I saw you had like a launch party of sorts, and I just want to congratulate you on your book and also on celebrating your book. Good job.

Meredith Carder: you and I actually really appreciate you saying that because I, I really fought hard with myself on that. I was like, I don't want to celebrate this, I don't want to plan it, I don't want to do anything. I did delegate a lot of that party to other people. And I kind of dreaded it. It felt like one more thing when I just wanted to get to the finish line of the book.

And also, again, with ADHD, often times we don't, feel like we deserve that celebration, right? There are a lot of thoughts of like, okay, I'm 44 and I finally did something with my life. Cool, why should all these people come celebrate me? But it was such a wonderful opportunity to be reminded of your community and what you did do.

And I'm so glad I did it. But again, like that's, that's hard for us. So actively thinking about how do we want to celebrate? How can we make celebrating a little bit easier? And for me, it was like saying to a couple of friends that had volunteered to do it, taking them up on their offer to do the planning instead of feeling like it had to be me steering that ship.

So,

Trina: Yes, I'm very proud of you for celebrating your accomplishment, and I think this is a great time to talk about your book.yes, tell us about your book Meredith. It's called Embrace

O'Ryan: Yes. Tell us

Trina: u

O'Ryan: Meredith.

Meredith Carder: It's called It All Makes Sense Now: Embrace Your ADHD Brain to Live a Creative and Colorful Life. I address, a lot of just the common symptoms people struggle with with ADHD. Every chapter starts with a personal story that relates to the symptom or the topic of the chapter. And then I dive into the understanding of that symptom, like what's happening in our brain?

What, what, what is going on? Why is this a problem for ADHD years? And then I, I'm going to close each chapter with explaining strategies and ideas for the reader to think about and implement into their own life. So, I, you know, it's definitely not a memoir, but there are a lot of stories I feel like People with ADHD need to be able to relate to these things and hear how they're showing up in real life. And I tried to do that in my book and I also really wanted people to walk away with some things to try and some ideas to make some changes with how they go about their life.

O'Ryan: Beautiful. And tell us where we can find your book and also connect with you.

Meredith Carder: You can find it at most of the major online retailers, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Bookshop. A lot of independent ones have it too. So support your independent retailers if they have an online shop. and you can find me on Instagram

@hummingbird_ADHD

that's probably the easiest place to find me. You can always reach out to me via DM or also find my website is meredithcarder.com, and that shares a little bit more about the different programs I offer as well.

Speaker: Hey, this is Larry, and you're listening to Brainwaves, your guide to all things ADHD, brought to you by Shimmer, the number one coaching platform for people with ADHD.

O'Ryan: ADHD burnout is not just exhaustion. It's your body sending a signal, a signal that something needs to change. Small shifts in how we approach our days can lead to big changes in how we manage our ADHD.

While you can certainly go it alone. Sometimes an accountability partner. Like an ADHD coach can be helpful in both identifying early warning signs and equipping you with the tools to avoid and escape burnout. We're grateful to Meredith for joining us today and sharing her insights And for those of you who want to explore further her book, it all makes sense.

Now is available at all your favorite places to buy words on pages. You'll find links to a whole bunch of additional resources and more if you're subscribed to the newsletter or at

shimmer.care/brainwaves

If you have a question and want to be featured in a future episode, head on over to

O'Ryan: shimmer.care/brainwaves

where you'll be able to submit your audio questions as well as check out our past episodes. Until next time.

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